Following the end of Yellowjackets‘ second season, many of us were looking for a compelling psychological horror story to devour. The good folks on the /r/Yellowjackets subreddit suggested FantasticLand, a novel about a group of Florida theme park employees who are trapped inside the workplace for over a month after a devastating hurricane.
Presented as a set of interviews with survivors and others affected by the incident, the novel doesn’t just scratch the Yellowjackets itch — it sinks its claws in and refuses to be put down until the final page.
FantasticLand author Mike Bockoven was kind enough to sit down for an interview to discuss some of our burning questions about his wonderfully terrifying story — including if there’s any chance of a return visit.
Before going any further, you should be aware that this interview will contain lots of spoilers for FantasticLand, which you really should read. It has also been lightly edited for brevity, clarity, and to remove my occasional squeals of joy.
AIPT: There have been a lot of Lord of the Flies homages over the years. What made you decide like to set this one in a theme park?
Mike Bockoven: Strangely enough, the synthesis of the book comes from a trip I took with my family to Disney World in Florida. We took our two daughters and made the classic American pilgrimage there (as you do). Being a horror fan and a little bit of a pessimist, I remember looking around the joint and saying “What could go wrong here?” When we got back from the trip, I did this thing where I’ll run on a treadmill while staring at a wall and listening to music, which I’ve found tends to force creativity. So it was really just a fortuitous mix of having this trip and location on my mind and then music that sparked an idea, which eventually turned into the book.
AIPT: Who was your favorite character to write?
MB: I’m partial to Glenn Guignol. I really love that character. He also turned out to be one of the best parts of the audiobook, which takes everything good about FantasticLand and completely elevates it — especially the two actors who do all the voices. They really turn it into a better piece of art than I created.
I based the character of Glenn Guignol (or at least his syntax and the way he spoke) off of Glenn Hetrick, who was a judge on the TV show Face Off, which is a monster movie makeup reality series. I never communicated with anybody from the audiobook company, but the narrator picked up on that and basically did a Glenn Hetrick impression. That just reinforced my love for the character.
Glenn Hetrick (Face Off/SyFy Channel)
AIPT: One of the best things about FantasticLand is how many wholly unique and authentic characters there are. It’s probably safe to assume that you based at least some of them off people you know. Have you had anyone come up to you and ask “Hey, was that character supposed to be me?”
MB: When you create characters, you try to mash up different traits and ideas as much as you can. That being said, there are definitely a couple of characters in FantasticLand that I basically lifted wholesale, either from pop culture or my life. The head of the Mole Men was actually a guy who I worked with — right down to his appearance. I don’t know if he ever read the book, but I’ll bet he’d recognize himself if he did.
But no, I haven’t had anyone come up and ask “Was that me?” I think part of the reason for that is the book’s interview format. People aren’t normally going to describe themselves too much in a setting like that.
AIPT: Did FantasticLand‘s narrative end up going places you didn’t expect when you started writing it?
MB: Definitely. That’s partly due to me being more of a discovery writer. I will map stuff out and have an idea about where I’m going, but I’m either strong enough of a writer or weak enough of a writer (depending on your perspective) to follow wild hares down rabbit holes when I find them. Sometimes that leads to something good and sometimes it leads to dead ends followed by deleting five or ten thousand words and crying at night.
I remember one time when I was writing, I got to the end and said “Man, it would be great if this character had a golf cart.” Then I stopped and said “Wait a second…I’m the god here! I can put a golf cart in the story where it should’ve been!” It was like realizing I had time-travel capabilities or something.
That process came into play in FantasticLand quite a bit. I would get to a point where I’d think of a good idea and go back to plant the seed and set it up.
AIPT: How did you decide on FantasticLand‘s format (and are you a fan of World War Z by Max Brooks)?
MB: Since writing FantasticLand, I’ve said that if I ever meet Max Brooks I owe him a steak.
I think World War Z is probably one of the most important horror novels in the last 20 years, both for what it was and what it wrought. I know the Walking Dead comic came out before it, but is there still a zombie boom without World War Z? I’m not convinced there is.
I loved Max Brooks’ interview style narrative that was woven through the narrative, which was global. If I have any innovation in me, I think the thing FantatasticLand did was take a really good idea that Max Brooks had and kind of boiled it down to a local setting.
I was also a journalist for a local paper for seven years. That gave me a good point of reference for creating the interviews, which hopefully came across.
AIPT: Is it crazy to assume that the pirate worker who helped the scared little boy at the beginning of the book was Brock Hockney?
MB: If you want the real authorial intent, the answer is no, that was not Brock.
I was hoping to paint a picture of how the park was good because we didn’t get a lot of good times there before everything went south. I wanted the reader to see that even in an emergency, it was still possible for someone to create a little bit of joy. Since the book came out, though, I’ve heard arguments from people (better than any I have) about why that pretty much had to be Brock. So yeah, I either missed the boat on that completely or I can cheat and say it’s up to the reader. But the truth is I’m not smart enough to have thought of that originally.
AIPT: Do you agree with how the prosecutor handled things after everyone was removed from the park? I personally wanted to wring his neck at first. But the more I thought about it, the more it felt like he really might’ve been backed into a corner and took the only option left.
MB: That part was actually a late addition to the book. My editor at Skyhorse asked me to put it in there after saying we needed a little bit more on the fallout from the incident. It ended up being one of my favorite chapters.
But do I agree with the prosecutor’s actions? I think I understand why he did what he did and what forced him into that corner. But you definitely wanted to see more people brought to justice, especially Sam Garliek.
Like I mentioned earlier with discovery writing, I didn’t start off with Sam being the weasely little guy he was. Then as we kept going, I was like “Oh yeah, I found my villain.” I’ve gone back a couple of times to re-explore things and he’s way worse than you initially thought he was. But Brock was exactly what he claimed to be. He tells you who he is and it’s up to you whether or not to believe it…and you probably should believe him.
But as for the prosecutor, I guess you do the best you can with what’s in front of you and I feel like that’s what he was able to do. There just might’ve not been a whole lot more he could accomplish aside from putting Brock away.
AIPT: Do you see FantasticLand as a self-contained story or is there any chance you may revisit parts of it…like those horrifying Warthog killers who are still sending postcards to poor Jason from the hotel?
FantasticLand artwork by John Bergin
MB: I’ve actually tried a few times. I had one idea I thought would work and it kind of didn’t go anywhere. I’ve got a current idea that could work really well, but it’s not quite there yet. Inspiration waxes and wanes. Sometimes you know you can pound out 5,000 words a day and sometimes you go a week without writing anything. Other times you simply get caught up in other projects.
But the simple answer is yes, I have thought about revisiting the world of FantasticLand. I don’t have a manuscript or a firm plan necessarily, but yeah, there are a lot of things I think could be expanded upon.
What’s really fun about the Warthogs goes back to your previous question about Brock being the pirate at the beginning of the book. I’ve had people come up to me with a whole corkboard full of conspiracy theories, but I didn’t write a puzzle box or lay 100 breadcrumbs with every third word in the fifth chapter that reveals their identities. But it’s been really fun seeing people react and come up with their own theories without having the whole picture.
My favorite idea as to who the Warthogs are is actually not mine. Somebody else told me their theory and I was like “Oh man…that’s not what I came up with but it’s great!” But revisiting things with the Warthogs is definitely something I’ve kicked around a lot. I guess my final answer is that they’ll come out when they’re ready.
AIPT: As a reader, the Warthogs weren’t something I was a fan of when they first showed up. They seemed like a straight-up slasher/horror element in a story that otherwise felt very organic. But that chapter with them hunting Jason Card in the hotel was absolutely terrifying.
I also love how the National Guard said they didn’t find anything unusual at the hotel, but the rogue member who sold his bodycam footage said he heard what was found in the hotel lobby went way beyond “unusual.”
MB: I’m sure you’ve run across situations where the sources for a report have completely conflicting viewpoints on something. When we don’t have the basic facts in the same place, how are we supposed to draw any sort of conclusion?
The answer is that we don’t, which ends up making that part of the story a lot of fun. The postcards are real and other people say they saw stuff, but the official word is that there’s nothing there. So who are you gonna believe and why?
AIPT: Sticking with the Warthogs for just a bit longer…is there anything you’re comfortable telling us about them that wasn’t in the book?
MB: If you’d asked me that question a year after the book came out, I would’ve been like “Yeah, I know what I’m talking about.” But now it’s less clear and possibly in a different direction.
How about this — I’ll tell you one of my favorite fan theories. A guy came up to me at a book signing and said “That was really cool how you had those serial killers who were just there at the park when the hurricane hit.” And I’m like “That’s a really good idea!” He just kind of glossed over the mystery and came to what I think is a pretty solid conclusion right off the bat. I don’t know if that’s where it’s going to end up, but that’s my favorite fan theory so far.
AIPT: Do you think FantasticLand could ever be adapted for film or television in a way you’d be happy with?
MB: I hope so! I think I can I can say there’s been interest. FantasticLand has been optioned for a few years now, although I can’t say with who or some very nice people will show up at my house.
I do have a lot of thoughts about it, though — particularly with the structure. If you keep the structure, then I think you’re halfway there. But with book adaptations, unless you’re Stephen King or Dean Koontz, they basically cut you a check and say “See you later!”
That being said, everyone I’ve dealt with on that end of things has been extremely nice and accommodating. But at the end of the day, they’re gonna end up doing what they want to do so can it be adapted and developed.
But I absolutely think a FantasticLand adaptation can happen. Just keep an eye on things and we’ll see…
AIPT: We obviously know that people can be terrible in survival situations. Do you think a perfect storm of elements like what happened with FantasticLand could ever really happen?
MB: Yes, but not FantasticLand specifically. That’s obviously a very heightened situation for the sake of the story. If you look at Goodreads or other reviews, that’s the primary concern/complaint about the book (it happened way too fast, it got way too violent, etc.), which is totally valid.
But as someone with a relatively bleaker outlook on humanity than other folks, then yeah, we’re capable of some pretty terrible violence. There’s a quote from Alfred Henry Lewis that says something like “Every human is basically nine meals away from anarchy.” What I was hoping to do with FantasticLand (and folks can argue about whether or not I succeeded) was set the perfect trap for everybody to go feral.
You’ve got fear, inexperience, the threat of violence, and then the actual violence with the stanchion incident, which was the spark that sets the fuse that ignites the bomb. That’s the thing that starts it all — the realization that “Oh crap, there’s somebody out there who’s killing somebody else.” That leads people to decide to protect themselves or fight for what they have.
So yes, I do think something like FantasticLand could absolutely happen.
AIPT: The way a lot of us found your book recently was through the /r/Yellowjackets subreddit. Have you seen the show yourself?
MB: I’ve seen the first half of the first season. I’m a big Christina Ricci fan.
Starting the campaign now for Christina Ricci to play ShopGirl leader Clara Ann Clark if/when FantasticLand is turned into a series (Yellowjackets/Showtime)
I’ve really enjoyed what I’ve seen so far. They’re doing something very original and great. It did chill my blood bit when I first heard the premise, which made me worry that someone might be doing my idea much better.
AIPT: There are definitely parallels between FantasticLand and Yellowjackets, but the stories are completely different — both with regard to their formats and how the narratives unfold. For those of us who are part of the Yellowjackets Hive, though, FantasticLand definitely scratched the itch we had for a great psychological/survival horror tale.
Okay…it’s now time to ask you the super-basic-yet-totally-necessary Buzzfeed question: Which FantasticLand tribe would you have been part of?
MB: My college roommate and I always had a joke that whenever somebody immediately died in a movie, we’d say “Hey look! There we are!” So I wonder if I would be Batman on the roof falling off and hitting my head or if I’d be one of the Deadpools who got their butts thoroughly kicked. I don’t think I would have a lot of luck is what I’m getting at.
AIPT: What other projects do have out there that we can enjoy?
MB: My third novel, Killing It, debuts this August. It’s a straight ahead narrative this time instead of an epistolary or an interview book. I originally pitched it as Jeremy Saulnier’s Green Room but in a comedy club. Basically a bunch of comics in a basement, a murderous guy up front, and they have to get out (and bad things happen).
Another one I wrote is a werewolf story set in the middle of Nebraska (where I’ve lived for about 20 years) called Pack.
AIPT: Is there anything you’re currently reading/watching that you’d recommend to folks who liked FantasticLand?
MB: The horror literature community has been such a blessing. I’m not much of a contributor — I don’t go to Stokercon or those sorts of things — but the wealth and the depth of talent out there are amazing. There are a lot of people doing a lot of really good work right now.
Grady Hendrix and Paul Trembly are great. I also love Jeff Strand‘s work.
Gretchen Felker-Martin wrote a hell of a book that blew my hair back called Manhunt.
Gabino Iglesias and Andrew Cull edited a great anthology called Found that’s a collection of found footage horror short stories.
Keep up with Mike Bockoven’s work at his official site or on Twitter.
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