X-Men Monday #211 – Jordan D. White Discusses the Biggest Moments in ‘X-Men: Hellfire Gala 2023’ #1

Welcome, X-Fans, to another uncanny edition of X-Men Monday at AIPT!

The third-annual (and likely last) Hellfire Gala is finally here — too bad for mutantkind, right?

Now, most of the X-Men didn’t survive the experience, but you’re still with us, dear reader. And surely, you have questions after reading X-Men: Hellfire Gala 2023 #1’s 70+ epic pages. Fortunately, X-Men Senior Editor Jordan D. White is here to break down the one-shot’s biggest moments.

And obviously, there are loads of spoilers beyond this point. So if you haven’t read X-Men: Hellfire Gala 2023 #1 yet, bookmark this article, go pick up a copy, and then read this interview for the commentary you crave.

Spoilers begin beyond the issue’s cover…

AIPT: Welcome back to X-Men Monday, Jordan! Let’s kick things off with the newly resurrected Ms. Marvel — who we can finally talk about. What’s the behind-the-scenes, uncanny origin of mutant Ms. Marvel?

Jordan: Well, first of all, when the Ms. Marvel show happened, I certainly didn’t know that reveal was coming. It was a big surprise and I was as shocked as all the fans were. Since then, though, I know that folks have been talking a bunch about how the original idea was to make Kamala Khan a mutant, and Marvel at the time was doing a big push for the Inhumans, and the idea of making her Inhuman and part of that initiative made a lot more sense. That said, you could look at the general shape of the story and go, “Yeah, I can see how that would be a mutant story.”

A lot is made by fans of, “Oh, Marvel’s being forced to do this or that, or they’re conforming to the show.” I think the part that folks miss is that, sometimes, it’s really worth doing because as much as we love the comics, the idea of the character that is presented in a film or TV show is seen by a lot more people than the comics are. It affects who that character is in the consciousness of the culture in general. Sometimes it’s worth going, “What about what they did differently is worth bringing over?” This is something that we really thought had a lot of exciting possibilities.

It’s easy to say, “Well, she’s a mutant in the MCU and then they made her a mutant in the comics.” But being a mutant in the MCU and being a mutant in the comics is an entirely different thing. There aren’t any X-Men in the movies right now, so she can be a mutant all she wants. It doesn’t change that much at this point. Suddenly finding out you’re a mutant in the 616 Marvel Comics puts you into a whole world of storytelling, and that’s what we’re interested in exploring with her. So when the idea was floated to do that, we talked about what the best ways would be. We brainstormed it at some big meetings and the idea of her being revealed as a mutant through the use of the Resurrection Protocols was one that we thought was really interesting. And the timing of the Hellfire Gala worked out really well for it.

I do want to mention that she’s not not an Inhuman — she’s still an Inhuman. She’s both — something that is extremely unusual. Has it ever happened? Some people would say yes, with Quicksilver and Crystal’s daughter Luna. But then it turned out Luna’s father wasn’t a mutant. So maybe it hasn’t happened before.

AIPT: And does this mean that Ms. Marvel has officially moved to the X-Office?

Jordan: Yeah, I’m actually the editor of the new Ms. Marvel: The New Mutant book. I’m really excited about it. I’m working with co-writers Iman Vellania and Sabir Pirzada, who are absolutely terrific and a blast to work with. And Carlos Gomez, who’s been working for the X-Office a bunch recently is drawing such beautiful pages. Adam Gorham is an artist on that as well. I’m not going to talk about why, but he’s doing very specific sequences, and Carlos is doing the rest. It all looks so great and they’re writing such a blast of a story.

AIPT: Moving on, there seems to have been a bit of a jump since we last saw Cyclops and Jean Grey in X-Men #24. At the beginning of X-Men: Hellfire Gala 2023 #1, this recently rocky X-couple seemed closer than they have been in recent months. Is it safe to assume they reconciled off-panel and Scott made the decision to join Jean in a life beyond the X-Men?

Jordan: That is 100% safe to assume. The last time we saw them in X-Men #24, Jean basically said, “Well listen, I’m leaving the X-Men. If you decide to do it too, we can go somewhere and figure this stuff out and be together.” And that’s the announcement she makes at the beginning of the election — she and Scott will be stepping down from the X-Men, leaving it in the capable hands of Synch and Talon. I mean, she doesn’t say, “Everybody, we’re going to work on our marriage” — but yes, that’s definitely what their plan was. Scott decided it was more important to be with Jean and to work things out together than to be the head of the X-Men any longer. And I think that was a big bit of growth for him.

Unfortunately, Orchis was not on board with that plan and did some very bad things to both of them.

AIPT: You could say that. So instead of Eminem, this Hellfire Gala’s attracted the likes of Wyn and Dmitri from Jonathan Hickman and Valerio Schiti’s upcoming G.O.D.S. As a result, X-Men: Hellfire Gala 2023 #1 also marks Jonathan’s triumphant return to the world of the X-Men. How did this come about?

Jordan: Jonathan’s been cooking G.O.D.S., and we knew it was going to be something really special and awesome. And when the idea of little teaser scenes in other books came up, we decided to send them to the Hellfire Gala. Jonathan might not be the Head of X anymore, but he’s still in our hearts every day. We were really happy to make it work. Gerry Duggan and Jonathan brainstormed the idea really quickly, wrote it up, and then we got it to Valerio. I’m really thrilled that Valerio got to actually do the art for it. It’s their first actual in-canon storytelling appearance by their co-creators. 

AIPT: A very brief visit from the former Head of X.

Jordan: We should have advertised it that way: “Jonathan Hickman’s return to the X-Men… for half of a page… sort of.” Panel one is his return, panel two is his fond farewell.

AIPT: OK, now for the first of many shocking moments in the issue. The new X-Men, comprised entirely of this year’s nominees — and led by Synch and Talon. This seems like a dream roster for so many X-Fans — and Nimrod strips it away from them just one page later. Can you confirm that Juggernaut was the legitimate winner of this year’s X-Men Election?

Jordan: Juggernaut did win legitimately. But this was by far the closest election. Over the course of the voting, there were three different characters in the lead at different times. And for the most part, that is not the case in the previous years. This time it really went between three different people, and in the end, Juggernaut won. We really did not know who was going to get this one.

I didn’t think it was going to be Juggernaut — not that my judgment is always great. I didn’t think it was going to be Firestar, so there you are. But he did win. This issue was planned but not written when the election happened. So Juggernaut fighting with Nimrod and what happens with him from here, without saying too much, didn’t exist. And because he won, Gerry came up with some cool stuff that I’m really excited about.

AIPT: And which one of you decided to drop that Nimrod-shaped bomb on X-Fandom?

Jordan: It was not my idea — but it’s a wicked idea. It’s an evil, evil idea, but it’s a big shock. I mean, listen, I’ve been close to it for a long time. You just read it. What happened in your mind when you turned that page?

AIPT: Well, you’re talking to someone who thought last week’s Orchis Monday was wicked fun. So I thought it was pretty funny. But obviously, each of those characters has their fans, so it’s certainly no joke to them. For those fans — just to confirm — they will not be the X-Men team we see in the Fall of X, correct?

Jordan: No… because five of the eight characters who were just announced on the team are dead. I’m sure you can look at what happens in this issue and go, “Hey, resurrection’s probably not happening like normal, is it?” And the answer is, “No, no it is not.” So those characters are not alive a minute later and they will not be on the team in X-Men #25 for sure. But they did legitimately get elected in-world, which does make our loser reveal strips a little different this year.

Juggernaut is going to be in the X-Men book because he won the election. But again, look at the last two elections, right? A number of the characters — not all of them — but a number of the characters who didn’t win ended up getting featured strongly elsewhere. And this year will not be different, even if it’s not exactly the way you expect it.

AIPT: Speaking of the unexpected — first Tony Stark, now Wilson Fisk? Are X-Fans about to become Kingpin fans? He seemed more helpful in the battle against Orchis than I assumed he’d be.

Jordan: That’s a great question. I mean, he just lost someone close to him, which is a bummer. So I don’t know. Do you think losing his wife will make him a genuinely good person? He seems to be on the side of the Krakoan mutants at this time. Will that change who he is fundamentally? That’s a very good question you will find out the answer to. I’ll give you a little tip — if you really want to know the answer to that, you may want to check out Invincible Iron Man, because there are going to be some answers there as well.

AIPT: I’m sorry for this next one, but it’s the first thing that popped into my head, so I have to ask. Not only does Moira MacTaggert murder Jean, but she reminds Charles — and X-Fans — of one of the cringiest panels in X-history. Was Moira calling Jean “the one you love the most” a callback to X-Men #3?

Jordan: Ohhh, OK. Like, I think it’s a subtle nod to that, but also I think we don’t have to take it to mean, “The one you’re hot for.” It could just mean that he feels very close to her, proud of her, and what she’s accomplished. Like, she clearly has a special place in his heart.

AIPT: But… Moira does know him very well…

Jordan: Like, listen, it happened. It happened. We haven’t literally retconned it away. But I think Kieron Gillen has done so much great work making Xavier understandable — even while accepting all the terrible things he’s done over the years. Let’s not get bogged down in this thing that we should never really get too significantly focused on.

AIPT: Let’s pivot to another beloved redhead. Everything X-Fans feared Firestar would be has come true — at least as far as Orchis is concerned. Are we about to witness Firestar’s finest hour as she embarks on her secret mission within the anti-mutant organization?

Jordan: I mean, it’s a pretty great reversal that Gerry came up with, because as you remember, a lot of people said Firestar was a cop.

AIPT: Gerry said that himself in this column when we ran the 2022 X-Men Election endorsements.

Jordan: Yep, but we didn’t make that up. We saw that idea and ran with it. I mean, you remember it was put in-world as well, and now it’s like… guess what? Stasis now remembers that she came to him and said, “Let’s stop these guys.” And I think that’s so terrible to put that burden on her, as no one knows because Jean’s dead. No one knows that she’s undercover except the dead woman who put her there and she’s on her own. She needs to do what she can for mutantkind — which she only just recently fully became a part of. I think that’s a great reversal of fortune, drama, and madness.

So is it going to be her finest hour? It has the potential to be — let’s see how it goes for her.

AIPT: Speaking of seeing where things go… what’s Mother Righteous up to with Krakoa Atlantic?

Jordan: Something real sinister. It’s a great question that you will definitely find out the answer to for sure — just not yet. But taking a big chunk of Krakoa? What is that going to be for and where will it be useful? The answer will surprise you.

AIPT: I love The Red Triangle and the power of mutants simply saying “resist.” It’s a great addition to the X-Men lexicon. What can you say about The Red Triangle’s inclusion in this story?

Jordan: What I can say is that it is something that Al Ewing made up a few years back, before he was ever working on X-stuff. It’s something he came up with in U.S.Avengers, when he was writing Sunspot there. He had Sunspot resisting a psychic attack and recalling back to this Red Triangle training that Xavier had given to his students. Then he brought it up recently in the issue of X-Men Red where Storm and Xavier had their psychic battle. It’s referenced there with images of red triangles in the big collage that Al did. So as a result, he had talked about it in our X-Men meetings and in our Slack. Gerry already had the idea that this was going to happen with Xavier commanding everyone and that the people who could resist were going to resist.

And Al was like, “You should use The Red Triangle.” Al actually did come up with the ‘Resist’ triangle idea and I wrote it down on a piece of paper so I could take a photo of it and send it to people so they would understand exactly how it worked. It was such a cool visual and Gerry was like, “Yes, absolutely — let’s do that. That’s super cool.” It’s such a cool image. I absolutely want a shirt with ‘Resist’ on it.

AIPT: Destiny manages to resist the Orchis onslaught and says, “So much death and destruction, and it all culminates with a giant X in the heavens, with the fall of the Krakoans.” Does that tell us everything we need to know about the end of Fall of X? Where do we look to follow Destiny and her prophecy?

Jordan: Oh man, I can’t believe we printed that. Destiny ruins our books all the time.

Where is Destiny? I mean, listen, I can’t tell you where Destiny is actually, because that’s a big mystery. Where did they all go? I can tell you that you will find out where they all go and that Destiny’s home title hasn’t changed. If you want to follow the story of Destiny, you’ll be reading it in Immortal X-Men. Gerry is writing X-Men, so the bulk of this issue’s plot threads are for X-Men, but there are bits in here that are setting up huge things for other Fall X series as well.

Obviously, Astonishing Iceman is going to be affected by this. Obviously, Jean Grey is going to be affected by this. X-Men Red — only to some extent. The stuff that’s been building up pre-Gala in Red has kind of already shown you the direction that title’s going toward — this huge civil war. But all the books… X-Force is going to have a very specific way that it ties into this that you’ll see in the next issue of that series. And Wolverine is obviously in here, learning about Jean.

AIPT: That was a great Wolverine scene.

Jordan: Yeah, a good one. So yes, all of this is really teeing up the Fall of X series. And I will say, next week’s X-Men #25 is going to follow up very specifically on the last pages of this.

AIPT: Based on those final two pages, I’m expecting a fun romp with Orchis.

Jordan: Kate is in for a great time. A fun romp, yeah. But I hope that your stomach muscles aren’t that sore from us punching you in the gut with this issue, because we might come for you again next week. 

AIPT: We know that not all mutants who stepped through gates were killed. But can you confirm that a whole lot of them are dead following Charles’ actions?

Jordan: I cannot confirm that.

AIPT: Well, Charles thinks they’re dead. He thinks he sent them into a meat grinder.

Jordan: He does. He believes that they are dead. I mean, Stasis said they’re going off-world. Xavier believes they’re being sent to Mars, but he can’t sense them — they’re not there. They’re not anywhere that allows him to locate them. That’s very upsetting. So yeah, he’s under the impression that maybe he just killed the majority of his species. Is he right? You’ll have to read and see. Regardless, we actually saw a number of people get killed — and not even just mutants, obviously. Orchis is not above killing a boatload of humans to make mutants look bad. They were happy to do so.

That poor ambassador of Ireland spoke a little too soon in that scene and received a very unhappy ending.

AIPT: That ambassador of Ireland… we know him?

Jordan: That was Declan Shalvey. But let me make one thing very clear: The winner of the Marvel Insider contest is on the second page of the actual Gala. But I have it on good authority that she left the Gala before all of the bad things started happening. She had to get home early, so she’s totally fine.

AIPT: I’m curious, as the X-Men Senior Editor, how does it feel seeing pages that capture Charles at his lowest point by the same Pepe Larraz who ushered Xavier into the Krakoan era?

Jordan: Well, the story’s not over yet. But the role I’m in as editor — and the role of the other creators — means we can’t really read these and enjoy them as a reader. I mean, we are readers of them, but we’re involved in the creation of them. So we’re reading them for pleasure — sometimes, to some extent — but also for the storytelling, for the skill, and for trying to enhance them. With that said, it was extremely satisfying. The story’s not over yet. I know where it’s going, and I’m really excited for where it’s going, even though it’s an extreme bummer right now.

That scene, though — Pepe is a monster and always has been and always will be. Getting him for any of this book was absolutely incredible. We really, really, really wanted to make it happen. I’m super glad that we did. I think these are the first interiors he’s done since coming back to Marvel after finishing up with Mark Millar. He absolutely nailed that scene. It’s such a viscerally upsetting moment, seeing how devastated Xavier is. He sells that emotion so, so hard. And yeah, I do think that the fact that he shepherded Xavier into the world of Krakoa adds to that in a huge way. That final shot of him kneeling on the beach as Rogue flies away is absolutely devastating. But Pepe, along with Marte Gracia, the colorist on that, are both incredible. They are at the top of their game still and always nail every single assignment.

AIPT: Finally, let’s take a step back. You’ve helped bring an epic, 79-page comic book into the world, with art by several of comics’ hottest artists, featuring tons of iconic Marvel characters. It’s quite the feat. What would you like to share about how X-Men: Hellfire Gala 2023 #1 came together?

Jordan: It was a beast. There was so much to keep track of that I had a couple of Excel sheets. The main one was just going page by page, like, here’s roughly what happens on every page. Then I could see how we could break that up into chunks and assign the right people.

So then, while we’re casting, a second spreadsheet was a list of every character and how many pages they appeared on, and how many different artists needed to draw that person. Cyclops is a good example. Cyclops is only going to be drawn by Luciano Vecchio, so we’ll just ask Luciano to decide what he looks like.

And that’s not even counting the characters who are going to be on the variant covers, which we had to start earlier. So, for a character like Sam Wilson Captain America, for example, my associate editor Lauren Amaro took point on a lot of those and reached out to a bunch of great artists and said, “Hey, we’ve got this Hellfire Gala variant. We need you to do a design for Sam Wilson Captain America.” And they would design that and we’d update the spreadsheet. Then we have to make sure we get that reference to everybody who’s going to be drawing him. It was absolutely a lot to coordinate. But it was also crazy and thrilling because honestly, I love comics and I love the challenge of trying to do new things.

I’m really proud of the finished product. I think we did pull it off, looking this issue over. I mean, how many artists were involved? Nine line artists and five color artists? It’s a lot of people to wrangle and make sure they all get done on time. But I think it turned out so well, even though there are a number of places where you turn the page and suddenly it’s a new artist. Even though it’s a pretty similar scene, it’s not the same scene. I think it looks great — I don’t think the art changes are jarring. And we’re thrilled to have RB Silva back in the world of X. He’s been away from us for a long time, since finishing Powers of X, but we’re really excited to have him back. 

AIPT: And RB has more work coming up, right?

Jordan: He does have some more X-work coming. We’re very excited to have him back in our office. Kris Anka’s back again. I think the last thing he did, interior comics-wise, was last year’s Hellfire Gala one-shot. We’re thrilled to have him back. He always does such amazing work. Again, Russell Dauterman as always. And Mateo Lolli came back, who did so much great Marauders work with us. 

AIPT: After reading X-Men: Hellfire Gala 2023 #1, a lot of X-Fans will be reeling — trying to process everything that happened and very worried about their favorite characters. But I feel like it’s an Empire Strikes Back or The Last Jedi situation. We just survived a very wild experience and the world as we know it’s been turned upside down. But… this is just another chapter in an ongoing saga. Have patience, X-Fans, and try to enjoy the journey.

Jordan: We haven’t been shy about the fact that Fall of X is going to be brutal and hard. But I still think people will have been surprised by how brutal and hard this issue was. Obviously, there’s a lot in here and there’s a lot to be wrestled with for the rest of Fall of X. But stick around and see how it turns out. We’re building towards stuff. Will it be more terrible things? Will it be more good things? You’ll see, you’ll see.

AIPT: We will indeed. But on that note, thanks for taking the time to break down this year’s Hellfire Gala with us, Jordan! X-Fans, if you want a more immediate sense of what the future holds for the X-Men, look no further than these 12 eXclusive Fall of X preview images, courtesy of Jordan.

Don’t be too sad, Charles — we’ll be back in just a few days with an all-new edition of X-Men Monday.

Until next time, X-Fans, stay exceptional!