To some extent, General Zod is best known for appearances in film/TV, especially the SnyderVerse titles. But he’s had just as wild of a ride in the comics, and the bulk of his appearances have seen him battle Superman as he tries to establish a kind of New Krypton. So, then, just what exactly happens when the good general finally gets what he desires most?
That idea is central to Kneel Before Zod, a new ongoing series from writer Joe Casey, artist Dan McDaid, and colorist David Baron. (If you missed it, the creative team have a Zod-starring prologue in the recently-released Action Comics #1060.) In the forthcoming book, Zod now has a chance to rule over the entire planet of New Kandor. But, as the solicitation promises, the “descent into hell has just begun,” and Zod must contend with new foes, family drama/strife, and a heap of other challenges as he exerts himself as proper ruler. There’s a reason DC has called this the “most brutal series you’ll read this year”: it’s a violent, unflinching portrayal of a stark character who still has so much to tell us about morality, violence, and the ultimate meaning of control.
Kneel Before Zod #1 is due out January 2, 2024. We recently had the chance to sit down with Casey for an extended Zoom conversation. There, we talked about Casey’s earlier work with Superman, why Zod might feel more authentic and relatable, why the creative team chose to give Zod his wildest dreams, the general’s own complicated family situation, and some potential teasers, among other topics and tidbits.
Issue #1 main cover from Jason Shawn Alexander. Courtesy of DC Comics.
AIPT: I know that you’ve written Superman before — namely Adventures of Superman many, many moons ago. What is it like to kind of come back to this pocket of the DCU?
Joe Casey: On the one hand, it felt like slipping into a warm bath, very comfortable. But on the other hand, it’s really, I’m telling the story of Superman’s opposite — his opposite number. So it’s writing a character with all of Superman’s powers, but with none of the morality, which is freeing in some respects and challenging in others. And I’ve never, in all my time at DC, really written a lot of cosmic stuff, and DC has a very rich cosmic capture to play in. And so it’s been fun to embrace that.
AIPT: I’ve talked to a few writers who’ve done Superman, including Philip Kennedy Johnson and Joshua Williamson. And they always talk about he’s this paragon of virtue, but Superman has just never resonated with me. But Zod I get — he has this power and he’s going to use it. Does that ring true to you? Is Zod more authentic somehow?
JC: Well, I think the word you’re looking for is relatable. Because it can be tough to relate to Superman because he has to stand on a higher moral ground. And Zod does not — he’s not bound by any code except his own self-interest. And as I wrote the character, I found there was a sense that he had his own standards. There is a kind of twisted honor in his own way. I leaned into here and there, but for the most part, the guy’s out for himself and his family. That, and to reclaim a glory that he was long denied. He feels very misunderstood on his home planet. Now, as this series opens, he’s ruling his own planet and he can fashion it in his own, in his own image. So he’s not bound by the constraints that he has been living under probably his whole life. So that’s interesting — Zod unleashed, and his id [is] spraying all over the place.
AIPT: Is this maybe a little bit of him seeing what happens when he gets what he wants to an extent? Like, “Now I can be the man that I’ve always thought that I was.”
JC: Well, the worst thing you can give any character, whether he’s good or evil, is exactly what he wants. That’s usually a recipe for disaster. When he’s achieved what he set out to achieve, it can only go downhill from there. And that’s certainly the case with this series, cause it starts off that he’s at his pinnacle; he’s got his planet and he’s got his family. He’s got his plans in place and it starts to all go wrong from there, which is the fun of the series, watching this descent into hell. I keep going back to this phrase that I used to sell the series, which is, “Bad things happening to bad people.”
Issue #1 variant cover from Ariel Colón. Courtesy of DC Comics.
AIPT: The other thing I kept thinking in reading this book is that Zod hasn’t been explored as much in comics versus films and even cartoons. Did you feel like you were battling that “perception” a bit? Maybe trying to cement who he is in the comics versus these other portrayals?
JC: The character definitely has some pop cultural currency that is beyond comic books. But as most things that become a meme, there’s not a lot of depth there. It’s just the branding and that’s kind of it. So it has been fun to lean into that and play against it and subvert expectations. I think on the surface you hear about a series starring Zod and you initially go, “Well, this is going to be a lot of meme-worthy events strung together to play off what the average guy on the street knows about this character.” And it’s not that at all.
In its own way, it is a character study. We are throwing everything and the kitchen sink against this character and see how he reacts and see how he responds and see what he does next. You know, the biggest compliment I hope I can get on this series is that I’m not asking anybody to like Zod. I’m asking people to engage and want to follow along and want to see what happens next. ‘Cause we’re telling a pretty epic story here. It just so happens that the protagonist is decidedly not a hero. Not in the slightest.
AIPT: Was that worry at all? I’m thinking of the recent Joker book where he’s the star of the show, and how that almost lends these villains a kind of sympathetic quality. Did you have to try and maybe counteract that to an extent?
JC: If I didn’t already know the end game, where this whole thing is going, that might be a trap as a writer that, as you get to know a character and the more you deal with him, that you sympathize with him, and so you want the audience to sympathize with him. But I know where this is going, I know what we’re trying to accomplish with this series. So I was never fooled by what we’re trying to do. So I’ve got my eye on the ball pretty heavily. I know where it’s going. I know what we’re setting up for the future. So it takes discipline because you want to like the characters you’re writing. And, to a certain extent, I like General Zod just fine. But we’re taking him down a bastard’s path and we don’t want to stray from that. He’s a bastard at the beginning, and he’s going to be a worse bastard by the end of it. You’ll just understand how big of a bastard and maybe why he’s a bastard.
AIPT: Before the series kicks off, there’s a bit of a prologue in Action Comics #1060. Can you tell us kind of what that introduction is? Is it a must-read before the actual Zod series?
JC: Well I’d encourage anyone to read the prologue. I mean, I wouldn’t tell them to skip it as it sets up the status quo and it sets up a conflict between Zod and his son Lor that really comes to a head in issue #1. It’s probably worth people checking out before they read issue one. But, of course, I’m trying to do my job here, and if issue #1 is where you come in, I think everybody will be able to catch up just fine.
Issue #1 variant cover from Björn Barends. Courtesy of DC Comics.
AIPT: Speaking of Lor, I love that dynamic that’s established in the prologue. And then, obviously, in the first issue, the butting of heads between father and son. What can you tell us, without spoiling too much, about that relationship?
JC: Well, I was handed the family dynamic. It came with the dinner when I took on the gig, but I tended to look at it like it’s a royal family. There’s sort of a Shakespearean quality to the drama inherent in a king and the prince that’s growing up to be the next king, hopefully. And you know what happens when that prince starts to have kingly ambitions maybe sooner than the than the actual king would like him to — that was a dynamic that I thought was interesting. Because, again. Zod is a certain kind of role model, and so it’s hard to be surprised that his son is a bastard in training. Even Zod’s not surprised ’cause he was a son once before.
So we’ll see how that affected him as the series goes on. But Zod knows how this is going to turn out. As the series opens, he’s not surprised by anything that happens or anything that his son does or says ’cause he’s been there. This is exactly how it’s supposed to play out. But I think what happens in issue #1 between Zod and Lor is one of the most brutal things i’ve written, and I’ve written a lot of brutality in my house. It’s pretty harsh and it’s pretty cold. And how can you be surprised at it? But I still think that moment in #1 where the shit hits the fan between those two is pretty powerful and really sets up the rest of the series in a deeper way than I expected it to.
AIPT: I definitely think there’s that moment after it happens where Zod almost comes off a little more sympathetic than he has in any other point in the issue. There’s some, I don’t want to say compassion, but there’s some ember of just decency. He almost is forced to say, “This is how it is; if you come back, you’ll have earned my favor.”
JC: It’s a very The Call of the Wild kind of scenario: If you’re not a nice guy, and you’re raising someone to also be not a nice guy, then you’re not going to be nice to that guy. You know, it’s a vicious cycle. It’s a family dynamic that sort of has to continue if the Zod bloodline is going to continue to be what it is: cosmic conquerors. How do you forge a cosmic conqueror? You do some pretty damaging things.
AIPT: Does Lor ring a little more sympathetic for you? I mean, Zod’s like this because he’s made his own decisions and he’s done all these things. But Lor is still young and under the influence of a pretty monstrous guy, and so that feels a bit more sad at this point.
JC: I had some sympathy for the kid, I must admit, when I wrote that scene. But I also knew that it was the first step in dismantling Zod and breaking him down to a place where he’s got to go, you know? He’s got to descend into this darkness. And what happens in issue #1 is the first of many steps that take him down that path.
Art from the Zod prologue from Action Comics #1060.
AIPT: Another big character in this arc is Ursa (Zod’s wife and Lor’s mother). She’s interesting because I had a hard time placing her. What is that marriage like if you’re married to a super space conqueror? Are you just as bad? Is she maybe his conscience to a degree?
JC: Well, there’s a reason they got married. I mean, they definitely see eye to eye in a lot of ways. The House of Zod is not necessarily a patriarchy, you know. She has mixed feelings about what happens to her family, but when it comes to what that family does best, she has no second thoughts. And in fact, in issue #2, we really see an interesting turn with Ursa that shows that she’s no more sympathetic or the conscience of the family than Zod is. I mean, she is his equal in every way, and in some ways can surpass him. So she’s not meant to balance him out…like she’s the more sympathetic side of the parents. She has mixed feelings about what happens to Lor, but she knows it’s necessary. And if anything, it strengthens her resolve.to see this family through to the place that they want to be. She’s definitely just as strong as Zod — if not in some way stronger.
AIPT: I got the sense he’d accept her as his equal; he needs someone maybe to reinforce what he thinks and knows so he never waivers.
JC: In their own twisted way, they’ve got one of the healthiest relationships I’ve ever written in comics. They’re there perfectly matched and they are there for each. But they both understand the realities of who they are, and you can’t say that about a lot of marriages these days.
AIPT: You worked with Dan McDaid, whom you’ve collaborated with before this. What is that collaborative process like? And I’m particularly interested in this idea of what is his style, his approach, and how does that shape or influence how you’re developing these characters and this world?
JC: He’s a cartoonist as opposed to someone who’s trying to draw photorealistic pictures. He goes for exaggeration where necessary and he goes for iconography where necessary, and he’s also a huge Superman fan. This is like a dream job, and we have a great time going back and forth. There’s so many little Easter eggs visually and textually; we just have a blast on those back and forth every time. I’ll hit him with, “Make the floor look like this” and I’ll give him the reference — he’ll come back with, “Yes it has to be that.” Or, a deleted scene from this movie and he says, “Yes, it has to be that.” So it’s great to be so in sync with an artist when you’re both pulling to make something as good as you can make it.
Art from the Zod prologue from Action Comics #1060.
And, by the way, we should not diminish the role that [of colorist] David Baron. We were so thrilled to get him. I’m a big fan of David and I’ve known him for 20 years, but I’ve never worked with him before. And as soon as he signed on for the series proper, Dan and I were like, ‘This is going to be something really good.’ With David and Dan together, there’s just no other book that looks like this at DC right now. That in and of itself, we’re all pretty proud of.
AIPT: Just a couple more super quick questions and then I’ll let you go. Are there any moments or any highlights that you can tease us that might happen in issue #2 and beyond? Any big tent poles that you’re willing to sort of tantalize the people?
JC: There are War and Peace-level battle scenes that are coming up in the next couple of issues that Dan is killing it on. In terms of later in the series, there can be quite a few guest stars that we’re pulling from DC cosmic continuity. There’s a lot of touchstones, too. Around issue #5, we’ll be introduced to the Legion of Zod, so be on a lookout for that. The momentum of this series is going to be insane; the whole idea is that it just builds and builds and builds. At the end of the first year, there’s going to be a huge galactic war, which I’m looking to do even though I’ll break Dan’s spirit…but he’s getting a good warm-up in the first couple of issues. It’s going to be great — we’re having a blast. It’s pure entertainment — sure, there’s some deeper themes woven in, but for the most part this is popcorn entertainment. This is big blockbuster movie stuff.
AIPT: I think that answered my last question — who doesn’t love popcorn stuff?
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