Welcome, X-Fans, to another uncanny edition of X-Men Monday at AIPT!
Last week, we dug into Fall of the House of X #1 with X-Men Senior Editor Jordan D. White. Now, it’s time to do the same for the first issue of its companion series, Rise of the Powers of X with its writer Kieron Gillen.
Hopefully, you’ve read the mind-bending Rise of the Powers of X #1 because there are spoilers beyond this point.
Photo by Mauricio De Souza, courtesy of kierongillen.com
AIPT: Welcome back to X-Men Monday, Kieron! Let’s kick off our discussion of Rise of the Powers of X #1 by talking about… DIE. X-Fan Julien recently reread DIE and noticed you pulled in influences from all over — Lovecraft, Tolkien, the Brontës. What ideas, concepts, and/or outside sources influenced Rise of the Powers of X, both in structure and content?
Kieron Gillen: Embarrassingly, I think the primary influence is “me.” When I come back to Work for Hire after a time in Creator Owned, I’m often bringing a toolset that I’ve developed there, and seeing what happens when I apply it to the Marvel Universe. I’m not alone in that — if you like House of X and Powers of X, you really should check out where Jon really started perfecting those techniques in Black Monday Murders. So the first-person narrator approach of DIE (and to a lesser degree The Wicked + The Divine) was brought over. WicDiv’s 12 people arguing over what they should do — the politics of superhumans, essentially. It was the same with Eternals — I was bringing the worldbuilding stuff I’d learned from DIE and using it to try and do the same thing for Marvel.
I should also stress the actual other primary influences — all the relevant Marvel comics. All the classic Claremont. All the classic Hickman. There are also some small things I’ve got so much from — The Further Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix by Milligan/Leon is basically the rosetta stone for almost all my 19th-century Sinister stuff.
Courtesy of Marvel Comics
Outside of that — there was the obvious Louis Stephenson in the 19th-century stuff — plus more than a little bit of Alan Moore (the eternalism of the Dominion is as much From Hell as Roko’s Basilisk). There was the Ada Lovece “philosophical science” stuff there too. I’ve been smiling that there’s a slow increase of Iain M Banks in my stuff — there are three separate bits where I’m riffing on a Banks book in my final X issues (and the massive twist structure I like is 100% me trying to recreate the effect of my favorite Banks). I read The Idiot for the Colossus issue (it’s great!). Obviously a lot of 2000AD and Warhammer 40k in Sins of Sinister.
Really, it sounds sappy, but I think of this period, and the influences are the X-Office. Aww.
AIPT: Aww, indeed! Next, X-Fan Josh Link has loved your work on the X-line and was curious how early into your tenure you came up with the idea to make Nathaniel Essex a Dominion?
Kieron: Enigma was in the pitch.
Courtesy of Marvel Comics
To be specific, Page 1 was a text version of the opening scene with Sinister and Destiny in the park, Page 2 was a title page, Page 3 was an overview of the book’s themes, page 4 was a “Here are the characters I want to use…” section header and page 5 was Enigma, before I talked about any of the active cast. He’s that core.
In fact, let’s just give you a sample of that essay….
THE ENIGMA
Aka THE GHOST IN THE MACHINE, SINISTER PRIME
Yes, just in case you didn’t know, this document starting with the villain should let you realise which idiot is writing it. We don’t even meet the villain for at least 20 issues, but as he’s gravity well all this is circling around, we should get to know him first.
And then I go on for another thousand words because I can’t help myself.
So, basically, Enigma was there from the start. He was my antagonist. Re-reading the essay, it’s interesting to see my thinking there — or at least, the thinking I wrote down then (which is never the whole story). I certainly dropped some things — Sinister Prime was a shorthand, as philosophically it’s not true, but it’s fundamentally as planned.
Courtesy of Marvel Comics
He puts a human face on these god-AI, and puts AI in the context of historical exploitation and control. The thing about the Dominions is… they came from somewhere. At some point, they were made, growing from worldminds to titans to dominions. Someone decided to take all these intelligences and make them one thing. Who does that?
Some were good people, maybe. I don’t think most of them were. I think a lot would be set in motion by men like Essex.
AIPT: Two X-Fans asked about fellow X-writer Al Ewing’s Defenders Beyond and how it connects to what you’re doing in your final X-stories. Ludis Max and Richard Chatham wanted to know if there was any connection between Enigma and the Crown Above All Things.
Kieron: I’m going to be basic here, as I don’t want to talk specifics about Al and Javier’s second masterwork — that’s for them to share.
Courtesy of Marvel Comics
Basically, at some point, Al asked me, “Hey, can we foreshadow Enigma in Defenders?” and I said, “That sounds great” and then later, “Do you think it’ll be too much if we actually use the word Enigma as well as showing the crown,” and I said, “Nah, go for it.” I figured, if people guess it, more power to them, and if they don’t, when everything is revealed people will like that we did the groundwork, in a larger Marvel manner. You know — rewarding folks if they do read more stuff, there’s more stuff to see… but it’s additional rather than required.
(I suspected folks would probably miss it, just because of the “distance” inside the Marvel Universe (as in, it’s not an X-book). I was more worried about issue 8 of Immortal’s “Enigmatically”, as it’s in the same book as that first issue, with all the Elgar in (“Nimrod” being one of his Enigma Variations)).
Also, if some more folks go back and read Defenders Beyond now, great. As said, it’s a Masterwork. You really should.
Courtesy of Marvel Comics
AIPT: And it’s got Phoenix stuff — what are you waiting for, X-Fans? Next, two X-Fans asked about ShadowTiger and the Death Seed. Bill and Krakoattilan were curious to learn why you chose to have Kate consume the Death Seed, which readers haven’t seen in X-comics for some time.
Kieron: Turning the history of X into ammunition was one of those big Krakoan ideas that Jon put in motion. We should take everything, and give it a spin. In my case, I like writing for people who know things in depth and people who are just coming in. “Consuming a death seed” is just a horrific idea even if you don’t know anything else, right? The issue motors, and we have to establish a lot with a little. “Kate eating a Death Seed” does a lot — certainly when married to RB’s visual.
Courtesy of Marvel Comics
In terms of specifically Kate — I wanted name X-Men in the dark future. Kate is a veteran of Dark Futures (she’s the original, in a real way) so showing someone who we know well and we know in a certain way in this OTHER way here says a lot. That Kate has been leaning grimmer across the Krakoan age made me think it was an interesting extension too.
AIPT: X-Fan Lukas said this issue mentions that the White Hot Room was mortally injured by Mother Righteous’s ascension attempt, and Immortal X-Men #18 shows Jean Grey being stabbed. Does this imply that Jean, the Phoenix, and the White Hot Room are one?
Kieron: I would say that’s an over-reach from the present evidence. You stab a voodoo doll and it hurts its target — but it doesn’t mean they’re the same thing. It means they’re connected, in some way.
Courtesy of Marvel Comics
Which isn’t to say it isn’t true either, but I don’t think it’s true from what we’ve shown. Also, as a warning, I would expect only gnomic answers from me. The Phoenix is born of that strand of 1970s mysticism and new-age-potential-of-humanity. This isn’t like how much someone can lift in a gym, or a comfortable fact. I think you’re going to end up with people having interpretations rather than things they can truly know — much like most mysticism or religions, right? Which isn’t to diminish any of that — how we choose to describe and understand the ununderstandable is kind of the point.
AIPT: X-Fan Percival S. has truly appreciated your time with the X-Men, and your work is one of the things that first got Percival into reading and buying comics. As unlikely as it may seem, Charles Xavier is one of Percival’s favorite characters and he’s really grown in your books. Percival was wondering if there was something in particular that drew you to him as a character to develop?
Kieron: Firstly, thank you.
He’s certainly one of the characters I was attracted to — I’m normally attracted to characters I think need a little work or have space for more development.
Basically, I felt he’s had a somewhat raw deal. Not in the fiction (he’s done all manner of awful things) just from generations of writers throwing him under the bus. I found myself thinking it’s almost as if Superman was never the lead in his own book — if you have this person who is meant to be a paragon, and they’re NOT the core character, the most logical plot is “The paragon is not the paragon the other characters thought they were.” The only way is down. The contrast between Xavier the saint and Xavier the person who has done all manner of shady shit is too much to overlook now.
Courtesy of Marvel Comics
So I just decided to take him seriously, without saying anything he’s done didn’t happen or had mitigating factors. How would Xavier justify what he’s done to himself? What’s in the text to support that view? Sure, he’s a bad father, but I’d also make it clear he’s a child of bad fathers. I’d try and center him in his own stories. I’d admit the hypocrisies (I think his hypocrisy is the main reason why he’s become so hated — Apocalypse is worse in every way in terms of what he’s done, but he’s honest, so folks seem to forgive him) but make an argument why he does this. And I do like where it ended up — this person who is spouting idealism (and believes it!) but is pragmatic to the point of utter heartlessness.
I thought about it a lot, and it’s core to the book. I wrote most of Immortal X-Men #10’s narration before I’d finished issue 1.
You may not like him now, of course, but hopefully folks get why he is the way he is… and now they get where his head is at, we can follow him further and see where it leads. It’s been a surprise to me too.
AIPT: X-Fans L1tt3rbug and Sebastian wanted to know which character in Rise of the Powers of X has been the most fun to write.
Kieron: Oh man! You may have seen my interviews before issue 1 was coming out. where I was dodging answers — for the obvious reason that the first issue is a twist structure, and I don’t want to give it away. The issue ends, and I’ve still got two black spots in the lineup for Xavier’s team.
However, in terms of the people you know for sure, I’ll give you this: Xavier and Moira. There’s some of my favorite material in my X-run with these two. HoXPoX had so much of them in there, so it was important for me to close that circle.
Courtesy of Marvel Comics
AIPT: X-Fan Raul said the rise of AI has always played a big role in the Krakoan era (and X-Men, in general), but in the last few years, the topic has become less fictional and more real. Have real-life AI developments changed how you write about it?
Kieron: You’re right — Al has played a huge role in the Krakoan Era. S.W.O.R.D. was an amazing book, and X-Men Red was perfection and Resurrection of Magneto is… oh.
I can actually do a short answer: yes, it has.
Courtesy of Marvel Comics
This was already in Jon’s planning with Dominions — they’re literally machines that are formed of the intelligence they’re consumed, a clear analogy of how models are made. Certainly when I’m writing them, I’m using language that evokes current language in AI.
I did think there was an outside shot that Disney sacks all of us when the Krakoan age is over, and Tom’s new team is just a bunch of ChatGPT scripts. AI did win after all.
AIPT: Dipping back into your previous X-run, X-Fan Mathias X was wondering if we’ll ever see Unit again. Also, could Unit beat Nimrod in a fight?
Kieron: Well, I’m heading off from Marvel after this age finishes, so you’ll have to ask other people. I’d like to think someone would find a use for him. I was planning to use him, actually. One of the plots I jettisoned for space for my first year actually had Unit as a character — he would have turned up as the diplomat from an AI confederacy, pissed off with Krakoa’s anti-AI activity.
Courtesy of Marvel Comics
Unit vs Nimrod in a straight-ahead fight? Oh, Unit would be toast. Probably my main regret of not being able to bring him back means that I wouldn’t get a chance for Unit to get smashed. A smug villain who remains unpunched is not living up to their full potential.
AIPT: Finally, what can you tease about Rise of the Powers of X #2, on sale February 21, 2024?
Kieron: For a start, all the black on the first issue’s No Place data page will be revealed. Plus: the vibe is basically cosmic Das Boot. It’s fun, for a certain, petrifying value of “fun.”
Courtesy of Marvel Comics
AIPT: Wouldn’t have it any other way. But on that note, thanks for stopping by X-Men Monday, Kieron! Remember, X-Fans, the Rise of the Powers of X story continues when issue 2 goes on sale February 21.
As for something a little more immediate, here’s this week’s batch of eXclusive preview images, courtesy of Jordan.
Courtesy of Marvel Comics
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Until next time, X-Fans, stay exceptional!
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